Luxury Branding Explained: Can Perception Outperform Craftsmanship?

0:00

Hi everybody, welcome to Under the Brand. I am your host, Valerie Jennings. Today I am excited to sit down with Mark Masarice. He has 30 years of luxury brand experience and is a fifth generation luxury jeweler. He is going to clue us in on what is trending today.

0:18

We’re also going to talk about brands that are faking it and what’s gone wrong today. Everybody seems to want to join the luxury space, but what does it really take to be a luxury brand? In the last year, we’ve seen some big mistakes, and we’ve also seen some remarkable transitions.

0:33

So Mark, thank you for joining us today. Please introduce yourself and share a little bit more about your luxury background with our listeners and viewers.

0:47

Oh, thanks, Valerie. It’s really great to be on here. I’ve really enjoyed your podcast. I’ve spent the last 30 years specifically within the jewelry industry, and I’ve evolved my experience into becoming a private jeweler.

1:00

So I managed a multi-store family business for many years, then transitioned out of that, and currently I work as a private jeweler for my select clients, and also as a US agent for some Italian and French manufacturers.

1:24

But I also work as a consultant within the watch and jewelry industry to help manufacturers understand the US market, and I work with direct-to-consumer as well.

1:32

The landscape keeps shifting, and it’s like, what is luxury today, right? We’ve seen fake luxury with the Payless Shoes pop-up that had everybody thinking they had influencers and fashionistas, and they were saying, “These shoes are so high quality. I would spend $500 plus,” blah, blah, blah.

1:58

And then at the end they let them know, “Hey, this is Payless.” And they were stunned. What? How is this possible? Is this part of the social media movement, where perception is reality? Who are the fakers, and what’s really a luxury brand today?

2:21

Well, I think you nailed it. I think it’s all about the perception, and what foot they put forward, and how they’re presenting themselves.

2:27

And I’ll tell you, even within the jewelry and watch industry, there are so many fakers, in the sense that even some of the big, big watch brands — very few of them are manufacturers. Pieces are made for them. They may do some final assembly. They may help with some aesthetic designs, but the majority of their budget goes not to R&D, but to marketing. So they become marketing companies with a product.

2:52

Well, as a consultant for luxury, what do you tell your luxury brands they need to do to embrace luxury? What is the DNA of luxury today?

3:06

Well, I think primarily it’s knowing what your brand represents and what you want your brand to be, first and foremost. You’re not going to be all things to all people. And as soon as you narrow that down and you know what you want to be, or what you want to portray yourself as, that starts the journey.

3:29

From there, I would say the product has to be of a certain caliber. If you’re looking to target the luxury side, you have to have more than just a design aesthetic. You’ve got to have the quality of craftsmanship, but you also have to have an intelligent backstory that makes sense — one that grips people and gets them involved. Because a big part of the luxury story is exactly that. It’s the story.

3:54

The luxury feel is exactly the story, but it also evolves into how you treat your clients with every single touch and every single communication. So diligence is a big part of it, and consistency.

4:12

Yeah. These luxury brands that are really doing it right — who would be on your list of brands where you think, wow, they’ve got the great backstory, they have quality, they’ve got the right price point? Which brands come to mind when you think about real luxury products today?

4:28

You know, I think in a wider scope of products, where more people can relate — not getting into the weeds on the jewelry side — brands like Mercedes-Benz and Audi. I think they really know their clients. They know what they’re going after. They don’t try to be all things to all people.

4:50

And again, that’s a strong point: knowing where you’re going, and knowing who you’re serving. And I think from there they try to make sure that their experience is as luxurious and as special as the product.

5:04

Audi specifically has really stepped up its luxury appeal, and they’ve made big inroads with that audience. What do you think they did that got them to that point? What did they do right that allowed them to transition the way they have?

5:24

I think Audi’s biggest point — and I’m a bit of a car and auto enthusiast — I think the advantage that Audi saw was that they took the negative portions of what a Mercedes client might say about their brand, that it’s maybe stuffy. So the average 30- or 40-year-old might look at Mercedes as kind of a stuffier brand.

5:48

They took a different approach with their brand. They went for a little more sexiness. They went for the technology, so everything you touch, everything you see.

6:00

But they also did it with value in mind. They made sure that they were competitive, but they also delivered a value, which a lot of luxury companies have lost sight of. They feel like it’s a bad thing to be a good value.

6:13

Do you think that the more expensive a brand is, the more luxurious it is? Is that the perception of the consumer? Is it more exclusive?

6:27

Well, yeah, that’s the obvious, right? The price point builds the exclusivity. You look at a brand like Rolex, for instance, which everybody knows about. Rolex makes great product. They’re expensive, but it’s definitely not something that’s exclusive. They make over a million watches a year for the world. There is demand for it, but it’s not something that is rare and unique.

6:51

So how do they get away with that? Is that just history? Is it brand equity built up over decades of time?

7:06

That’s exactly it. And a lot of these brands will kind of ride their own coattails and follow what they’ve laid down. And sometimes they have to retell their story. There are new generations that come up.

7:17

Take a brand like Coach. Today it’s a great American brand, but as far as a luxury brand, it’s kind of taken a few notches down. Maybe because of the availability, maybe just the cachet of the brand itself being more available, and the price points of it. So it’s a little bit easier to acquire.

7:36

But its history was really to be some of the finest saddle makers in the world, and that’s where they built their primary reputation. So I think a lot of these brands really go on their laurels and their history, but they don’t do a very good job of telling their story to the next generation. That’s where we see things fall off.

8:00

That’s a great point. Economic accessibility has changed too, right? We have more billionaires than we’ve ever had, so we’re seeing people in different economic spending patterns who can afford more luxury.

8:18

I’ve also read a bunch of studies lately that even the younger generations are financing expensive luxury experiences, so they can feel that even in a younger era, in a way that maybe we didn’t experience. So there’s definitely a shift. I’m sure it’s coming from Instagram and TikTok and the influencer mindset.

8:44

But while we’re talking about cars — because I also love cars and worked in automotive marketing for about 15 years — I can’t resist bringing up Jaguar and the disaster with their branding.

9:02

And this is politics aside. It’s not a political issue, but they trashed their loyal audience with this brand relaunch that they did. If we look at that example that played out, and the stock plummeted, what is the lesson there for other brands — not just luxury brands, but brands in general?

9:28

Once you’ve built up a legacy brand, to make such an extreme pivot like that, what does that do to a brand? And when might that work, or should nobody ever do that again?

9:49

Well, I think you just answered the whole question. But it’s ironic you bring up Jaguar, because I just saw an article this morning that in the month of April, they sold 40 cars.

10:02

Forty cars for Jaguar. Wow.

10:08

In the country — I think it was in the country. In the US, that’s how it was determined. They sold 40 in the US. I mean, that’s one car lot.

10:17

So I think that’s a situation where they had a perception of themselves and of who their client was, and they had such a narrow perception of who their client was that they wanted to go from there.

10:30

What’s ironic with Jaguar is that it tends to be a more mature brand, and that’s the clientele. They also have an LGBTQ following, partially because of the fit and finish of the product and the attention to detail. You don’t have to be into engines and superchargers and whatnot to enjoy the brand. It really is the presentation and the finesse of what they make, and a lot of people in that community really enjoy that aesthetic.

11:02

And something else that gave it some cachet is that it’s not your normal, let’s just say pedestrian brand. It’s something that you don’t see everywhere. They’re pretty special, and you have to have an appreciation for it. They are a bit temperamental as far as the engineering, but most of the people like the styling. That’s what they’re going after.

11:22

And I think they probably took that marketing research too far. They had already announced that they wanted to go all electric by 2030, I believe, so they were already moving that way.

11:40

And again, politics aside, I think they took it and thought that they were leading the pack in the way they were going. But I think they also realized very quickly that that’s not going to reach a lot of clients well. So they’re catering to a very small percentage.

11:57

And the new prototype — like you said, the new prototype was very cool, very sexy. The advertising they used to roll it out was very strange for that brand. You’ve got a traditional British brand that has a strength with hand workmanship, one-of-a-kind, very bespoke, and they really did not present that side of the brand.

12:22

Yeah, I agree with all of that. And then you’ve got Payless launching a pop-up and convincing people that they have a luxury product. So can anybody join the luxury category today with the right perception? What do you think?

12:42

Oh, I think if you’ve got enough money to throw at it, you can create a brand around any product that you want, and you can build it into something of a perceived — excuse me, not a perceived value, but a perceived luxury.

13:00

And it’s a matter of showing the aesthetic of it, but it’s also a matter of giving off an air of exclusivity, an air of specialness. Whatever it is that you want to set it apart is what it’s going to be.

13:11

The Payless example you gave was really interesting. I think they had influencers who were really floored. And when it comes to shoes, you just do something a little bit different. You don’t need a signature. They didn’t by any means have a red bottom or anything special on them. They were just very nicely made shoes.

13:24

And it also goes to show that sometimes some of the private label, smaller manufacturers that aren’t so worried about their brands make some of the best products.

13:38

Yeah, that’s true. So let’s switch gears and talk about T10 Bespoke. That product is luxury, it’s also tech, it’s an experience, and it’s in that price point. So it’s an interesting product. Can you first just describe what it is and how you’re involved with it, and then we can talk about the branding around it and the packaging?

14:04

Well, a few years ago, my friend Barrett Priogger came to me and said, “I need some help with some precious metals and some insight on manufacturing some pieces.” And when he showed me the concept of what he was making, it was pretty amazing.

14:24

As we worked together, his vision for this product was a combination of an atelier product — a handmade bespoke product — and something that was technologically very advanced, and that becomes what he sees as an everyday staple item of use.

14:45

What he did was combine some great materials that you don’t normally get. You don’t think of high-end jewelry as being technologically advanced, or being utilitarian at the same time. So he’s figured out how, and this is actually a whole new concept in the market that he’s coined as the in-ear computer.

15:06

So don’t call them earpieces, because they’re way too robust for that. Or earbuds, right?

15:13

Yeah, don’t do that.

15:18

But it’s a whole new category. And I tried it out last week, right? I went to see Bear, and my reaction was, I feel like I’m in an alternative universe. It stimulates your brain and your senses, because the audio literally feels like it’s living inside you.

15:41

It’s amazing that he’s been able to create that in such a small device. But on the other side of this product is the unique customization of the design, which is what makes it that jewelry piece. Is that right?

15:59

Yeah, correct. Whereas most companies — when you get these rechargeable earbuds, most of those come in just an ugly plastic case that you don’t want to show. His is designed specifically around the charger, and it’s made to be a decorative piece of jewelry, whether you’re wearing it on a watch chain or a woman’s wearing it as a pendant. It’s meant to be a decorative piece.

16:18

And the other unique thing that he brings to the market with these products is the fact that you’re combining an electronic product, which is normally mass-produced, off-the-shelf, one for one — you just grab it and go. These are all bespoke.

16:37

So each one — and literally the collection is called T10 Bespoke — is designed one for one. You pick your metal base, you pick your ceramic trim, and you pick your skin color. And then you pick the ceramic for the actual inserts for your ears, so you can pick that color also.

16:57

So there’s a lot of customization that is just unheard of, to be able to have that married to high-level technology as well.

17:12

And this was something that has been somewhat trying on the retail side. Most entities that handle direct-to-consumer business don’t really understand how to handle a special product like that, that’s made custom. And his success is coming out of going directly to the consumer.

17:32

So you literally get online — he’s got a great app that configures the piece the way you want, so you get it and visualize it the way you like it based on all the possibilities.

17:44

And then Bear calls you directly to say, “Okay, we’ve got this metal with this color. I really like this. Here’s a consideration I would offer you. Tell me what you’re going to use it for. Tell me a little bit about yourself.” And he may tailor it for you a little differently.

18:01

Or he may give you some information about the piece that you didn’t know — what its capabilities were. Because I promise you, even after four or five years of working with Bear on this project, every time I talk to him, I learn something new about the product. It’s just so robust, and the capabilities are tremendous.

18:13

He’s got, no exaggeration, something like 12 or 14 patents that apply to this single product. And he started — his background is as a musician. He started with a very high quality in-ear monitor as the main driver. So he had sound that he was able to take to the next level, and then throw in that technology with it.

18:38

So he is an expert at having the right partnerships.

18:45

Yeah, he’s very talented, and the level of customization and how he’s capturing each person’s individuality and then bringing that through in the design is pretty incredible.

19:00

But with all this specialty, it creates a very niche audience, right? You and I have talked about this. So what is this audience, do you think, Mark? Is it jewelry? Is it tech? Is it audio experts, or people who love sound? Bear talked about the hi-fi lounges, right?

19:29

So in this example we’re seeing a lot of areas of luxury expand, but that makes branding difficult, right?

19:35

This is really almost a textbook study in how consumers can buck trends. And I say that in the sense that when we first started out marketing this product, we came up with a demographic and a sort of client type that fit the niche.

20:03

Not unlike what I do for jewelry or watches for my private clients very specifically, whether it be certain brands, certain levels of finish, if they’re looking for particular brands.

20:14

It also crosses over. What we saw was the crossover to more of the automotive enthusiasts. A lot of those guys who are highly into their automobiles like the customization, they like the technology, they like that whole relationship, and also the exclusivity of it.

20:28

That’s the biggest key with this: you’ve got something that’s very high quality, very different on the market, but it’s also very exclusive just to you. Not to anybody else — it’s your piece.

20:45

And more recently, we’re seeing that trend really being bucked. Because what we’ve discovered, as this is getting out to more people, is that we have people who are not meeting our parameters whatsoever with regard to income level, with regard to hobbies, with regard to just the overall demographic.

21:03

These are people who are not even our outliers. They weren’t even considered to be targets for the product. And that’s been the most interesting discovery. It really is not just audiophiles, not just special items. What we’re discovering is that it’s people who like things that are different and custom.

21:22

Yeah, eclectic. That desire to have something that nobody else has. That’s a conversation starter, right?

21:36

One thing to consider is that an eclectic client does not necessarily point to a socioeconomic level. You can have eclectic taste and be within any range.

21:48

Yeah, I agree. And that makes it difficult to build brand personas for your marketing. But these new categories are bubbling up, and it definitely takes more patience to build them out and figure out how you’re going to market and present them.

22:13

So just in closing, for people who are watching this who maybe want to jump into the luxury space — can they fake it for a while, or do you think the truth will come out eventually, even if they pour lots of money into the perception? Does quality matter these days?

22:35

Nobody seems to even know the difference between AI, what’s real, and what’s fake. In fact, I was told by my paid media team that on an interview I did similar to this, people were putting comments that I was AI.

22:58

I don’t know if that’s a compliment or an insult.

22:58

I said the same thing. Is that a compliment or an insult? But regardless, pretty much everybody is confused. What is real? What looks real to somebody might look fake to somebody else. So have we entered a new era of just all artificial, or is there some degree of authenticity left in luxury?

23:25

I think luxury is subjective. I think quality is subjective, and it’s subjective to the end user. What I consider high quality, you may look at and not consider good enough, and vice versa. So it’s a very subjective term, and when you try to market it that way — you know, is Yeti, for instance, anything special?

23:54

A brand like Yeti has built up their brand recognition as being a quality brand. Is it because it’s expensive? Is it because it’s just well made? What do people like about the brand? Everybody has a different approach to it, but it’s not something that is so groundbreaking and so unique.

24:13

So I think a lot of brands have figured out that their message and their marketing is number one, and they’re putting that even above the merchandise itself. Because with that approach, you can almost build a brand and not even have a product, right? You can fit the product in later.

24:34

So many of these brands — you see some of these ads on TV and you don’t know if it’s a drug ad, you don’t know if it’s a shoe ad, you don’t know if it’s some kind of random wearable ad. You don’t know what it is. So they go on perception. They’re going for that perception of a quality product, perceived quality, and they kind of fill in the gaps.

24:57

I think the biggest part of a luxury product is how they treat their consumers after the sale. And how they represent themselves, not just in the initial rollouts or the initial designs, but also how the company evolves over the years.

25:16

What’s their longevity? What’s their willingness to stick to their design? Maybe it’s a design element that they’ve gone with — what’s their willingness to stick through it? Or the second it doesn’t feel like it’s the right fit, do they dump it?

25:29

Are they strictly numbers driven, or revenue driven, or are they strictly onto the brand itself and want to perpetuate the brand? Many times it takes a little bit for people to become accustomed to something. Ten years ago, you wouldn’t spend $40 on a metal cup. Today it’s kind of normal and accepted, right?

25:56

And we’re seeing that along the lines of many products, where you’re seeing a lot of very high-end AI jewelry ads for generic jewelry brands that you would assume are going to be very high quality. And it turns out to be either some kind of artificial stone, or just a base metal, not precious at all. But they’ve got a quality feel and look, and that’s where they establish their credibility.

26:29

Yeah. And my personal feeling is that influencers are driving this trend. Because if the right influencer says this is quality, this is amazing, people are going to buy it, because they trust the influencers.

26:43

It used to be that you’d get an ad or watch a TV ad and think, oh, I might want to buy that or go test drive it. But now the influencers are really running that show and deciding, almost defining, what category or brand — you know, whoever pays the right influencer to say that. So it’s almost like this has also created demand in a different way.

27:18

I read a post where a journalist was writing a story about a woman who launched a swimsuit line and had no sales and was very discouraged. I’m sure she did everything right — had a business plan, a website — and so the question was, is this normal?

27:34

From my standpoint, you could have the best ads, but if you’re in a saturated space, you need influencers to tell people to buy your product, or ambassadors. So I think these influencers have really created a lot of new trends and disrupted the buyer personas. They’re almost unpredictable, kind of to your point about the other product, which is very unique in itself.

28:04

Mark, do you have any last words of wisdom for anybody who is thinking, hmm, I want to create a luxury brand and sell overpriced products? Do you have any last comments or cautionary warnings — hey, if you’re going to do this, be careful?

28:24

Yeah, I think products go viral for different reasons. And to back up just a second to your comment about influencers, it’s amazing how much credibility people give influencers, and that’s where that came up.

28:43

Initially, just anybody who was in the public eye was considered an influencer, just by accident. You saw somebody from Hollywood carrying a certain purse, wearing a certain watch, wearing a certain jewelry brand, and all of a sudden it’d get tagged and highlighted. And they maybe didn’t mean to endorse it — they bought it on their own — and all of a sudden now they’re an influencer.

29:02

And today, I think for most of these influencers, it’s strictly a numbers game. How many pieces can they show? How much can they bring in? When you have these lists of influencers, you see their reach, you see how many posts they’re willing to do, you see how much money it is, and you know how to break it down.

29:21

Nothing’s guaranteed. It’s just another avenue of advertising. But there does seem to be some sort of implied credibility that people feel with these influencers.

29:28

Yeah, and they trust them more than doctors, it seems like.

29:35

That is true. So I think what’s important, if somebody wants to build a true luxury brand — a lot of what I do when I work with these brands is I inspect every aspect of the business. How are you handling customer calls? How do you handle your packaging? What is everything, from touch to use to delivery?

30:00

Everything has to be seen, and it’s every detail. You have to take diligence with every detail, and that leads to the next level of credibility and the perception and the implied feel that it is a luxury product and that you’re buying something special.

30:31

If I were to sell you a very fine ring and deliver it in a plastic bag and not in a fine jewelry box, then you would think that that’s not a luxury product. It’s all in how it’s handed off.

30:50

Yeah, I agree. Well, Mark, always a pleasure, and thank you for all the great advice. For everybody watching, this is Under the Brand, and I’m your host, Valerie Jennings. Stay tuned for future episodes where we decode other branding mysteries. Thank you again for watching.